Posted by aogWednesday, 17 May 2006 at 13:41 TrackBack Ping URL

Rate limiting

The debate over immigration seems to have become one where actual discussion is rapidly becoming impossible. Even over at Brothers Judd, I can’t seem to get people to engage my actual arguments. Instead of wasting my typing there, I will expound on my point here where I have the space and time to provide a fuller explanation.

As I have discussed previously, I am not sanguine about the ability of the USA to absorb large influxes of immigrants. The essence of this is two questions I asked the proponents of unrestricted immigration.

  • Is there an upper limit to the number of immigrants who can be successfully assimilated per unit time?
  • If so, how likely is it that proposed changes in immigration laws would create immigration rates larger than this limit?

David Cohen provided a coherent and relevant reply which makes him stand out in the crowd. He agrees that there is a limit but that no real world rate would exceed it. I disagree, but it’s certainly an arguable proposition. Other responders didn’t seem to understand the question.

The essence is that in order to function in a society, one must have a set of attitudes, habits, conventions, expectations, etc., that I will refer to in short hand as “memeware”. This includes things as abstract as a general expectation of liberty to the proper way to queue up for voting1. The expression of these memes creates the society that can be observed2. From this, we can deduce that immigrants in general have dysfunctional memeware, because otherwise their original societies would be as good as ours and they wouldn’t have gone to the effort to emmigrate.

As in my previous post, I don’t think this is anything different than the past. The particular dysfunctions may be different but the overall situation is basically the same. I will note that the memeware that we have in the USA that enables us to have the society we do was developed at great cost over multiple centuries. Transmission of the memeware, fortunately, is much easier than creating it3. This is what makes assimilation of immigrants without permanent damage to the host society possible. The dysfunctional memes can be replaced by ones from the host society, making the immigrant a native over time4.

There’s a catch, though — the memeware that runs our society is not a priori obvious. Much of it can only be learned, not deduced. Therefore, someone must teach it. That is the limiting factor on the rate of assimilation. There are only so many natives to teach, only so much of their time they will devote to it. This has the effect that, until the limit is reached, there is little negative impact from increasing immigrant flows. It seems to me, however, that the flip side is that once the limit is exceeded, things can get worse very rapidly5. A key point which seems to get missed is that the desire of the immigrants to assimilate becomes irrelevant past the limit point because the societal resources simply do not exist to satisfy the desire.

I was accused of wanting a government training or propaganda operation, despite my history of opposing direct governmental intervention in social matters. It’s particularly sad because the same person posted this less than 24 hours later in which he describes an archetypical example of what I meant. He writes

I began to notice that, far from being the socio-economic burden I feared and expected, Somali kids were starting to win all the school prizes and Somalis were proving to be far more pleasant, informed and diligent in stores than the clueless young native-born Canadians who seemed irritated that you were bothering them and appeared never to have been taught the word “thank-you”. The story isn’t trouble-free — immigration never is — but that my city has been enriched by the Somalis is plain for all but the wilfully blind to see.

One young boy of Somali immigrants plays on my son’s hockey team, which I coach. He is smaller than his team mates and more enthusiastic than talented, but he plays his heart out and does whatever is asked of him. His entire family comes to all games, including his mother and sisters in traditional dress. The other night, he scored our winning goal and the sheer innocent pride and joy he and his family expressed was a wonder to behold.

Exactly! The Somalis came in dysfunctional but were taught (by a combination of the school system, class mates, neighbors, soccer coaches, etc.) how to function in liberal democracy. It is a natural process for societies that are capable of it (and if they’re not, no government program will change it). That young boy gets to be on a soccer team with natives, who provide direct instruction and examples for him. He, in turn, may some day be the coach himself, passing on what he has acquired. But, and again this is the catch, the entire process depends on there being enough natives that their memeware dominates and the immigrant gets the upgrade. This is the same limiting factor, viewed more concretely.

Orrin Judd claims that “the superior culture assimilates the inferior” with an allusion to Darwinism. However, Darwinism is filled with chance and error, providing no guarantee at all that the superior will win out, only that it is more likely to do so. History verifies this. There are many expatriate Americans who should carry our culture to foreign lands but do not that our “superior culture assimilates the inferior”. In fact, the Americans (particularly in the State Department) are the ones who assimilate to the local culture. It is obvious to all but the most blinkered that numbers matter, which is yet another view of the limiting factor I have been writing about.

What, then, are we left with? There is a limit to the ability of our nation to assimilate immigrants. We have little idea what the limit is. Historical records are of some use, but one can make strong arguments that our capacity has decreased since those days. We note that our society is a rare thing, being almost unique despite its obvious success and effort at export. If it is lost here, there is no guarantee that it will arise again. It is for these reasons that I am cautious of opening the immigration gates wide from the start. I would support significant increases in current rates, but I think it behooves us to ease them up somewhat gradually instead of trusting to fortune that we have not made them too high.


1 I don’t use the term “culture” because that is usually taken to mean the expression of a more limited set of memes, not the internal information that exists inside people. In addition, a society can have many cultures and I want to talk about the broader set of memes that create the society.

2 Orrin Judd writes “Darwinism is true as a social science, just false as a biological one” but he is unwilling to follow the logic of his own claim, because that makes memes the competitors, unless one goes in for biological determination of those memes.

3 There’s an anti-singularity argument in there, where one could argue that as we approach the putative singularity, the meme transmission cost to sustain the society in which that is possible rises as fast as the technology, thereby preventing the sort of run-away process the creates the singularity.

4 It is of course one of the memes of American society that makes it such a successful society that a native is one who has acquired a minimal set of the societal memes. We have been an information society from before the very beginnings of our nation.

5 To riff on the education analogy again, it’s just like class size. Experience shows that up to a limit, class size matters very little. But once class size exceeds a limit, things fall apart. The system does not degrade gracefully.

Comments — Formatting by Textile
Michael Herdegen Thursday, 18 May 2006 at 02:37

I’d say that you were correct that there is a limit to assimilation rates, but also that it’s probably irrelevant. I don’t think that the American public would accept official and legal immigration levels at anywhere near the limits. They don’t even support letting motivated and educated Asians who already possess American memes to immigrate freely to the States.

Frankly, I’d be quite pleased to kick out a few tens of millions of fat, lazy, and willfully stupid native-born Americans, and replacing them with tens of millions of people like Anchee Min, who went from rags to riches using luck and massive pluck, in the fashion of the best Americans.

As regards the singularity, won’t the tech adapt to the memes, rather than the other way ‘round ? The best design is intuitive to use.

We won’t have to transmit many memes to support the singularity, we’ll just co-opt the ones we already know.

Bink Thursday, 18 May 2006 at 06:35

I’ve not tracked your whole debate, but I’ll shed some light on various aspects of it.

The only way to control immigration is fine the employers of those immigrants. The US did this with near 100% effectiveness in the agricultural industry in the southern states in the 80’s. Employers were fined $5,000.00 and imprisoned for 6 months for hiring an illegal to work on the farm or ranch. It was a clever tactic, no agricultural operation could survive being “closed” for six months and paying a fine. The result was that once thriving agricultural economies evaporated. If no one is willing to hire you, why immigrate—you have that right where you are and the walk is much shorter. Of course, that same ruthlessness was not applied to restaurants and hotel chains, because many in the US had a sense that they did not want to cook or clean; it was beneath them to perform menial labor.

Of course, such poor thinking still affects our country. In a stunning upset, floods of out of work Americans did not show up to chop the fields, irrigate, or plant and harvest. Today, in Del Valley, the average age of tractor drivers is 50 years old. The average age of irrigators is 70 years old. The farm managers there say that when these workers die or retire, they are simply going to stop farming because young people will not do the work.

My point is that “The Somalis came in dysfunctional but were taught (by a combination of the school system, class mates, neighbors, soccer coaches, etc.) how to function in liberal democracy.” is attributing manners, work ethic, and sense of right and wrong to institutions that are focused on tolerance, political correctness, and rabid enforcement of equality for all in thought, word, and deed. I can say with absolute certainty that these institutions did not teach this boy the desire to win, manners, or to try hard in spite of failure. And, they certainly did not teach his family to encourage and support their child. This attributes are cultural, not institutional, and frankly, the culture of the US is fast becoming undesirable to all but the “fat, lazy, and willfully stupid native-born Americans” to whom it caters.

The long-term affects of cultural decay has affected and continues to affect our country as highlighted by many of today’s issues. If you can’t hire people who will work in your neighboring country when you own population finds that work “unsuitable for one of their standing”, then what do you do? You move operations to those countries where people do work just as many of the agricultural giants did. And, when you can get the “self entitlement crazed” folk on the West and East Coast to do something more than sit around and chat about how they’ve been cheated by immigrants, you start outsourcing to Mexico, Japan, China, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Turkey, Ireland, Taiwan, and nearly any other country where the culture has yet to decay to the same extent as the US. Of course, greed (another cultural phenomenon of the US) has had a great hand in exploiting these workers too; but the primary point is that no one will do the work in the US for a reasonable salary.

So, you can try to figure out the rate of plausible assimilation, but you’re working on “the answer to a different problem”.

Annoying Old Guy Thursday, 18 May 2006 at 08:12

Mr. Herdegen;

Ah if only we could cull! That problem comes right back to the welfare state, which is designed to produce lazy Americans. That’s one reason I cut President Bush some slack, because he is actually making some progress on curing that more primary problem. Even immigration becomes much less of an issue sans a welfare state.

David Cohen Friday, 19 May 2006 at 22:32

Let’s try this one on for size: Supporting artificially low immigration quotas is morally indistinguishable from supporting a comprehensive welfare state supported by high, and highly progressive, tax rates, except that it is less transparent.

Annoying Old Guy Friday, 19 May 2006 at 23:05

Mr. Cohen;

I must strongly disagree. A welfare state requires the taking of wealth by force, whereas restricting immigration does not. As a libertarian, that’s a very major difference in the two.

There is also the fact that a welfare state requires an enormously larger amount of government intervention than low immigration, although one might argue that’s the same as the previous point.

It’s the difference between refusing to share and theft. One might argue that both are immoral, but distinguishing them is easy.

As I think about it, I can’t even figure out what connection you could be postulating. Is it that restricted immigration presumably pushes up wages? But I don’t see how that is equivalent to progressive taxes. I am not following your argument at all.

h-man Sunday, 21 May 2006 at 06:06

Reducing immigration among the unskilled is the perfect welfare program. The unskilled are encouraged to work rather than sit at home. Income inequality decreases, quality of life rises. And the program is not administered by the government; there’s no mismanagement or fraud or expansion of the welfare state.

cjm Saturday, 27 May 2006 at 13:20

push out the bottom 1% each year, and restrict yearly immigration to the same number. sounds harsh but that’s life for you. what’s conveniently left out of the “americans won’t do this type of work” is the law of supply and demand. keep illegals from driving down wages and a given category of work will pay enough to make it worth someone’s while to do it. we should be subsidizing s/w engineers, not farmers, anyways.

Trackbacks
Tracked from Low Earth Orbit: Sticky culture on 31 May 2006 at 20:29

[source] A. Nany Moose posted an important comment that helps explain much about Africa, and which I did not pay...

Post a comment